There is something to talk about
GIDEON LEVY
Ha'aretz, 6 August 2005
He's not what you would think: In a polo shirt, two designer silver rings, a muscular body, a neat black beard, almost a Palestinian metrosexual. Meet Abdel Halim Izzedine, known as "Abu Qassam," one of the leaders of Islamic Jihad in the West Bank, a member of the political arm "without blood on his hands," a representative of his organization in talks with the Palestinian Authority (PA), and a spokesman for the organization.
He's not what you would think: He's in favor of a hudna (cease-fire); against the current spate of attacks; in favor of compromise with Israel within the 1967 borders and with the right of return; doesn't hate Israelis, just the occupation; wants to get to know our human side. He had never met an unarmed Israeli before, has never been interviewed in the Israeli media. He has served 12 years in Israeli prisons, the last time he was released was five months ago, after serving three years. He spent another two years in Palestinian prisons, and another year under house arrest by the PA.
Abu Qassam was born about two weeks before the 1967 Six-Day War, in Arabeh near Jenin; his father was a farmer, his brother was killed by Israel in 1971. He now lives in Jenin, the father of three, makes a living from his work for Islamic Jihad, an organization in which he has been a member since the age of 17. He has a gun permit from the PA, here's the license.
We met in a house in the Jenin refugee camp; Abu Qassam arrived from the city of Jenin accompanied by a resident of the camp, Mohammed Sa'ad, wearing a flowered galabiya and sporting a long beard, who was recently released from an Israeli prison and served as an interpreter.
Why are you in Islamic Jihad?
Abu Qassam: "Islamic Jihad convinced me about a lot of things. When I was a high school student, I spent a lot of time in the mosque, I had a lot of questions, and Jihad provided me with the answers. The other organizations weren't belligerent enough, Jihad was more belligerent."
I've heard that you support a hudna.
"Yes, I support a hudna. The hudna will open many political options; Islamic Jihad is based on religion and on the Koran, on imposing Islamic justice everywhere. But Islamic Jihad has also, more than once, given a chance to hudna and to negotiations with the PA and with Egypt. We stopped the attacks, and Israel continued the arrests and the assassinations. Islamic Jihad will agree to a Palestinian state in the West Bank and in Gaza, within the 1967 borders, on condition that it is a state like any other, with freedom of movement, on land, in the air and at sea, with Jerusalem as its capital, and most important - a return of all the refugees.
Where to?
"First let's agree on the principle. If Israel is willing to accept such a solution, Islamic Jihad will be even more willing than Israel."
And what about the plan for greater Palestine?
"That remains, but so does Zionist ideology. Israel is willing to return territories, Israel is now leaving Gaza and parts of the West Bank despite its ideology. Just as you are giving up on parts of your ideology, we will be willing to do the same. Ideology will remain in our hearts, just as it remains in Israeli hearts. There are Jews here. Had there not been a war with the Jews, there would have been a war over an Islamic state.
"Now we are talking among ourselves. First we said we wouldn't talk to the PA, and now we're talking to it. And look, I'm sitting with an Israeli, too. Your readers are fed only what the Shin Bet and the government tell them, and they say that Jihad doesn't want a hudna. And I'm telling you that we're with the hudna, and we're looking ahead.
"The press doesn't always understand what we're saying. The whole problem now is with Sharon and the Likud government, which doesn't have any political plan except disengagement. It has only a security plan, and that will not enable us to progress toward a solution.
"Israel is continuing with the arrests, continuing with the assassinations, continuing to enter villages and cities, doing everything to break the PA, which now has many problems with its public. Israel is forcing the Islamic organizations to react. The Israelis are causing us to react. They enter, arrest and kill, and we have to react. Two months ago, a 16-year-old boy was wounded in Qabatya, when the Israel Defense Forces came to carry out arrests. He remains confined to his bed. Three days ago, he was released from the hospital, and the IDF came to arrest him. His life is in danger, and he isn't causing any danger to Israel.
"Such behavior causes every Palestinian to feel that Israel wants to harm him. They arrested Ibrahim Khader in Tul Karm. He's a political leader in the Jihad, not a military leader. Israel is broadcasting a message that it wants the entire Islamic Jihad, whether they're politicians or not, and that creates tension in the organization and makes it angry."
Will you ever recognize the State of Israel?
"That's a tough question. But if Islamic Jihad participates in the Palestinian government, and the government reaches an agreement with Israel, that will be recognition. Not official recognition, but recognition.
Negotiations with Israel?
"At the moment, no. But nothing is sacred. In a political program anything is possible. Nothing is final, maybe yes and maybe no."
What would you tell a young Palestinian man who comes to you and tells you that he's going to blow himself up in Israel?
"I'd tell him not to go."
Why?
"There are reasons for that. According to our religion, we believe that if a person goes to blow himself up, there have to be reasons for it. Why do we carry out suicide attacks? We can't harm the IDF, it has missiles and tanks, and we can't operate on the roads, so we do this. But now there's a hudna, and if Israel maintains it, we won't do anything."
You carried out a major attack in Netanya in the middle of the hudna.
"I have personal opinions, and the organization has its viewpoint. Jihad sees that Israel is continuing to operate as usual, and it has to react. I have my opinions, and so does Saraya al-Quds (the "Jerusalem Brigades," the military arm of Islamic Jihad). Saraya al-Quds must react. There was a hudna, Jihad agreed, and Israel didn't understand that. I once met in Jenin with a representative of the European Union and I told him that we were willing to reach understandings with Israel, like those which were achieved between Israel and Hezbollah, with international supervision over both sides. The Israelis are not prepared for these things."
What is your opinion of the disengagement?
"We won't cry when the occupation leaves. At the same time, we hope this will be a first step toward the establishment of a Palestinian state and an end to the occupation. But the disengagement plan is not a plan for independence.
A step on the way?
"No. According to the Israeli plan, it's not a step. This is a security plan, whose only goal is to reduce the damage to Israel."
You're actually speaking almost like Fatah.
"The present intifada had led to a closer relationship between the Palestinian camps and factions. We have become closer, and everyone is looking for the points of agreement."
What is actually the difference between Hamas and Islamic Jihad?
"The two organizations have agreed that they will join the PA and participate in the government. The difference between us is that Jihad says that first we have to agree on the political plan, and if such agreement is reached, it will agree to participate in the government, no matter how many seats we receive; Hamas is willing to participate in the government before any political agreement. They want to get a lot of seats, large representation, and they are convinced that they will be able to reach the agreement afterward, on the basis of their representation. The seats are more important to them because they're sure that based on their majority, they will be able to exert influence from within. We and Hamas have the same plan, which is also shared by a large part of Fatah."
Who is more dangerous to Israel, Hamas or Jihad?
"Sometimes we see that in the Israeli media, they keep saying Hamas, Hamas. Every Qassam comes from Hamas, that's what your people say. But there are people on the Israeli side who say that the Jihad ideology is dangerous."
And what do you think?
"It's difficult to answer."
What is your opinion of Palestinian Authority Chairman Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas)?
"He is a man who says what he thinks, and he has had a political plan for 20 years. We agree with him on several points, and disagree with him on others. We see that he is serious about what he says. Despite the differences of opinion, we consider him an honest man."
Is he better than Arafat, in the opinion of Islamic Jihad?
"Arafat believed in the armed struggle more than Abu Mazen does, but he didn't care if a civil war broke out. Abu Mazen doesn't believe in the armed struggle, but he is a major opponent of civil war. He has said more than once that if civil war breaks out, he'll go home. We're with Arafat in the struggle, and with Abu Mazen in opposing a civil war."
What would you say to an Israeli reader?
"The Israeli has to know he's not the only one who wants to live here; I want to live here, too. We have the right. We are living under the occupation, and you don't talk about that. The soldier who comes in here, he has a mother and father. His family knows he is harming old people and children here. So why don't they speak? Why don't they ask him, `What are you doing?' They are also partners to what their son does. The silence turns them into partners. Everyone was created by God."
What do you think of the Israelis?
"I see only occupation. I see Israelis in planes, in tanks, in jeeps, destroying and killing. I hope to see the other side of Israel. The Israeli as a human being. The Israelis consider me a murderer, and I didn't murder anyone - and I see the Israeli as a murderer and a criminal, who wants the occupation and doesn't see anyone but himself. I don't see the other side, and I know that there is another side. I know that there are other Israelis.
"That's the problem: We see only one side and you see only one side, only the bad side. And what's most important: I don't hate the Israeli. I hate the occupying Israeli, the way he behaves. The Israelis say that the Palestinians want only to kill Jews. And what are you doing here? You come here and I'm speaking to you with respect, because you're speaking to me with respect. Did I kill you?"
Will Israel exist in another 100 years?
"No. Israel reached its peak 10 years ago, and now its decline is beginning, in terms of its power, its honor and its international status."
And if Israel changes, will it survive?
"Of course."